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 Jacques Perot
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K.H. : And your first encounter with Napoleon was at Pau?
J.P. : I was curator of the Chateau de Pau for 8 years. I did not come across Napoleon a great deal although he had been there and had commissioned restoration projects for the château - although these were never actually carried out - as well as changes to the town layout with the creation of what is today the royal square looking out over the Pyrenees. On the other hand, Napoleon III and Eugénie stayed there several times, as Pau was something of a rival with Biarritz for imperial visits. The sovereigns made their mark on the site by continuing and completing the restoration policy set in train by Louis-Philippe.
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K.H. : You then held the post of deputy director of the Ecole du Louvre and the Ecole du Patrimoine before being made director of the Musée de l'Armée at Les Invalides.
J.P. : I was contacted by the Ministry of Defence at a time when it was looking to expand and develop the museum. Appointed director of this public establishment, I held two terms of office each of three years, and endeavoured to open the museum up to the general public, displaying the site and its collections to best effect through a range of activities and boosting its development via tangible investments such as the auditorium or the facilities for temporary exhibitions. These were things which were badly lacking if the establishment was going to operate as a major museum worthy of its collections.
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K.H. : What have you retained from this encounter with the Napoleonic era?
J.P. : It will always hold a fascination for me. All the more so since thanks to the museum statutes, its manager has the astonishing title of "guardian of the emperor's tomb". With the founding of the museum at the beginning of the century, there was a genuine desire to put the accent firmly upon the Napoleonic period over and above the others.
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K.H. : You have been and are in charge of museums located in historical sites and buildings. Does the attraction for the job come from the prestige of the place, and all the associations that come with it?
J.P. : Very much so. I have been in charge of three historical sites, Pau, Compiègne today, and Les Invalides. In the conservation sector, there is the particular specialisation of working as the curator of this type of sites, whose history is of major importance because of their significance for sovereigns and because of the events which took place there. They should therefore be treated as faithful witnesses to these events.
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Compiègne
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K.H. : When did you become director of the Musée National de Compiègne?
J.P. : On 18 May 1998, and I am delighted to have found what I consider to be my true vocation, a musée-château or a château-musée.
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K.H. : Let's take a closer look at this notion of musée-château or château-musée. Where does the Château stand in this definition?
J.P. : I find that the château-musée is at the very frontier between history and the history of art. They are not true museums. They are first and foremost châteaux which house collections. Their main functions are as residences. It is important to understand that visitors to these sites are not quite the same as those to museums. This is something that is not always appreciated by those dealing with the problems of museums. The museum is a building in which to show-case works of art, and to place the objects in the best light. In a château-musée, the work of art, beautiful as it may be, is simply one of the items which make up a décor or a setting.
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K.H. : What other difficulties are involved in trying to bring relatively contrasting museums together in a chateau which has rediscovered its identity as a royal and imperial residence?
J.P. : Unlike other royal and imperial châteaux, Compiègne boasts some 50 rooms with a complete décor. This is somewhere where one can perhaps appreciate more readily than in other places the life of the court and the way the apartments were laid out. Things are more accessible. As a very large chateau with 1,400 rooms, 55,000 m2 of floor area, and 2 hectares of roofing, it is therefore quite natural that other types of cultural use have developed, like the Musée du Second Empire for example. But there too, a museum in a chateau does not behave like a museum in some other building, and it has to logically fit in with the overall scheme of things, which is the case with the Musée du Second Empire and the Musée de l'Impératrice.
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Historical reconstruction and museography
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D.C. : Compiègne has been defined as the "first attempt in France, in the area of a royal residence open to the public, at the historical reconstruction of the life of the former sovereigns." Briefly, what are the main principles behind historical reconstruction?
J.P. : This is something of a French speciality, resulting from the thinking and teaching of art historians and curators like Pierre Verlet. Historical reconstruction has been applied in various places like Fontainebleau, Compiègne, Malmaison and Versailles. This involves restoring all or part of the historical apartments to the condition they would have been in during a given period, for example under a particular sovereign. This means that all of the furniture or décor predating this period must be removed, as must anything which has been modified afterwards. Everything must be restored to the state of the given period.
These choices are governed by certain criteria. First of all there is feasibility. Without 18th-century furniture it would be impossible to envisage the reconstruction of a bedroom belonging to Louis XV or Marie Antoinette. Then there is the documentation. A large amount of work is involved researching sources. Decorative elements from the period need to be tracked down, like silks, which we know to be perishable. The principle is then to produce them identically, which also makes it possible to keep certain traditional industries in business. The reconstruction of these historical conditions was the great policy implemented by the curators at Compiègne after the Second World War. Started by Max Terrier, it was continued by Jean-Marie Moulin.
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Château de Compiègne
The Empress's bed chamber
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K.H. : What were the options open for Compiègne?
J.P. : We could have tried to preserve as much as possible of the Ancien Régime, given that this château was built by Gabriel for Louis XV and most of the interior decoration was completed under Louis XVI. We could have focused on the First Empire as Napoleon entirely refurnished and redecorated the château, in two different styles according to the areas concerned. Some of these kept the decoration from the eighteenth century and only the furniture was replaced while others were redecorated more luxuriously under the supervision of Berthault. The third option would have been to say that the chateau had changed for the last time and that the Napoleon III period would stay. But the Napoleon III historical condition had already been disturbed by certain curators of the 19th century, and also when the château was used as a sovereign's residence for the last time during the short stay of Czar Nicholas II, the centenary celebrations of which event we will be staging in 2001.
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K.H. : So which of the periods was finally selected?
J.P. : The main thrust of the policy at Compiègne centred on the First Empire period. This concerned most of the Emperor's and the Empress's apartments, the King of Rome's apartment and the double apartment of the prince, albeit with some misgivings, not only because we did not want to destroy but because we did not have the necessary elements to recreate the Empire state. In particular, Compiègne boasts some particularly significant examples of diversity, originality and boldness of choices in the combinations of colours used. Compiègne is one of those sites in which we can counter the prejudice concerning the emblematic colours of the Empire. It gives an excellent insight into the prevailing tastes of this period.
The Second Empire has been seriously neglected. Apart from the Salon des Cartes, the former King's Bedroom which is the Family Room, the Empress' Music Room and the Galerie Natoire, we find practically no trace of the Second Empire. The Music Room, in a very poor condition, is very interesting as it tells us a great deal about the personal tastes of Empress Eugénie, and about the eclectic nature of the Second Empire style. I would like to restore it. It is important to remembered though, that we only see what has been restored, even though other possibilities exist.
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K.H. : Are you in favour of this overall reconstruction policy?
J.P. : This policy was carried through in a remarkable manner, but today would we really have the courage to destroy the overall atmosphere that marked the end of an era in a residence? By wiping out the final states of a residence, you wipe away whole layers of its history. Choices have been made that I would not argue with, although I believe that more careful thought should now be given to the problem of reconstruction. Today, we would perhaps do things a little differently. However, we should also recognise that thanks to these reconstruction projects, Compiègne has an exceptional range of decorative art from the First Empire.
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K.H. : Would the Musée du Second Empire and Museum de l'Impératrice not gain through finding more of a link with the historical apartments of the château?
J.P. : Obviously we need to consider the links between these various Second Empire features. I do not wish to see the château confined to a single Second Empire image but at the same time it is important to recognise that what was particularly interesting in this period was the idea (moreover initiated under Louis Philippe) of the Séries. The visit only touches on this slightly. During the Second Empire, the château was a great residence, and everyone is keen to see how it operated. What is more, we are lucky enough to have excellent documentation from this period, detailing both furniture and various writings which can offer the public increasingly tangible traces of life from the period (thoughts, menus, programmes etc). One of the strategies of the programme that I am proposing to the Ministry of Culture is to produce a section dealing with the Séries, which could include a room/museum as an introduction, and then the reconstruction of the guest apartments, the smoking room and the library. These features would be an excellent counterpart for the large apartments. This is a full-scale project which would effectively create a new area devoted to the Séries. At the same time, we will doubtless need to review the Second Empire museum.
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K.H. : The charm of Compiègne also lies in its huge park directly adjoining the forest. What stage have we reached in the landscaping work?
J.P. : The park is a major part of the reforms. Certainly, the park and Château still belong to two different departments but the same establishment head can organise well co-ordinated activities in direct association with both of these bodies. The policy chosen and implemented by the historical monuments department is to return the small park to the condition it was in at the end of the Berthault project to which the Emperor contributed by making a few corrections. There too, it is a choice of historical reconstruction. The park is a very interesting measure of the Emperor's tastes, and it has some unique features found nowhere else, which need to be shown to best effect. This particularly concerns certain areas like the Berceau de Marie-Louise or the Allée des Beaux-Monts.
(An introduction to the park at Compiègne is included in: December 26 1999: Empire ravaged by storm)
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Cultural activities
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K.H. : What are your aims concerning the opening of the château to the public? Don't members of the public have difficulty recognising the true historical identity of the château?
J.P. : That is absolutely right. If we summarise the content of the château, it is the historical apartments first, the Musée du Second Empire and Musée de l'Impératrice, third the Muséé de la Voiture et du Tourisme and finally the park. I consider the park to be just as important an element as anything inside the château. With this in mind, we have just adopted a new logo where the château is combined with the idea of the outdoors. As each of these features merits a separate visit in themselves, we have something of an image problem. Although one of the strengths of the Château de Compiègne is that it offers several types of furnishings and décor, it also carries with it a certain difficulty for an uninformed public, who perhaps find it difficult to move from one period to another.
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K.H. : And what about the programme for the visits?
J.P. : Two elements will certainly remain as part of the guided tour. These are the historical apartments and the Muséé de la Voiture et du Tourisme for staffing reasons and also because visitors to the château are often less informed than those to museums, which means someone has to be hand to explain the history of the site. I would like to keep the Second Empire museum available for unaccompanied visits. Other features, which are either more fragile or which offer the public an overlap with the visit to the grandes appartements such as the Roi de Rome apartments and the double apartment of the Prince will be used for conferences. Compiègne can offer several distinct but complimentary visits. These include guided visits and visits/lectures by speakers from the national museums who offer new perspectives and themes particularly suitable to meeting the needs of enlightened amateurs. These will be renewed each season. The two types of product are complimentary in nature and do not compete with one another.
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K.H. : What is the programme of exhibitions for the year 2000 - 2001 in Compiègne?
J.P. : The first major exhibition will be held in the autumn and is entitled "The Count of Nieuwerkerke - Art and Power under Napoleon III". As a figure close to the imperial family who was less well known than Denon but who had the same functions under the second Empire, he represented the official régime's official stance in artistic matters. As a senior civil servant, a member of the court, and a collector, this aesthete was also an important sculptor. All facets of his life are examined, and this exhibition will give visitors an excellent insight into the artistic world of the Second Empire.
2001 will be devoted to the visit by Nicolas II and Empress Alexandra, an official stay accompanied by full protocol, exchange of gifts but also political manoeuvring. In just a few weeks, Compiègne was transformed. With the help of the Russian museums, we are trying to recreate a little of that.
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